Where to begin...as you've probably noticed from reading the site, I've included material
from the site "sweet Usagi" in the rumors sections regarding rather glaring inaccuracies in a site that is considered a resource (or was at the time - it's been static for two years now.) As is my usual style, I had some fun with it while I corrected it. At the time I initially included material from Sweet Usagi, the site had not only gone without updates for at least a year, but it had become rather public that Natsuki Lynn was not about to correct some rather glaring errors with the information on her site, which was a rather popular reference at least at the time. As SMULC fell into a lack of updates over the 2004 year, I completely forgot the comments...until the web mistress in question finally stumbled upon them. she did not take kindly to them, and wrote to me. Her e-mail was not much in the way of a flame, and I normally would have replied to it civilly and discussed it with her (I try to give people who e-mail me stronger criticism and even flames the benefit of the doubt at first). However, the very next message in my e-mail was from a fan of Natsuki Lynn, who not only flamed me, but included a link to Natsuki Lynn's livejournal - where the entire e-mail she had sent to me was posted in full, followed by a series of smaller flames from her own fans.
Since Natsuki Lynn apparently feels that the e-mail sent to me is not a private communication, I feel no guilt posting it in full, nor any of the other public flames that I've received. If Natsuki Lynn is reading this, you now have my response, in public as you clearly have no qualms presenting your own correspondences in a public forum. I've even included, as a bonus, the additional material from the LiveJournal - information I would never have been party to had it not been for her over-sensitive fans.
| I was researching Happy Barry 'Sailor Moon' orchids on google, and happend across this site. I'd never seen it before, but after browsing a while I discovered several snarky comments about my website. Here is my response to that. I sent it as feedback, but am posting it here as well, incase it never get's resolved. |
I appreciate you giving me so much time to respond privately to ensure a resolution. I also appreciate that you did not feel the need to garner public sympathy in the face of the dreaded snarky comments.
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----------------------- I request the this asinine and completely false comment about me be taken of your website. "Despite the fact Natsuki-Lynn argues that it is a pun, she is ignoring the fact that the pun is not literal." I never said it was literal, and no where on my website does it say that the name is "RIBBON" It simply explains that yes, it was INDEED a PURPOSEFUL pun. |
I'll admit my entry was convoluted - it's since been clarified. But from your own site:
"I'll forever and always call it Death Ribbon Revolution (and this is acceptable because it is one of the two pun meaning for the attack)."
"Ribbon" being a pun doesn't not mean that "Ribbon" is acceptable, anymore than Jupiter making a pun on "Supreme Thunder" with "Chou Cream Sundae" makes the latter an acceptable term. In addition, the rumor entry you include has a title that declares the proper phrase, "Death Reborn Revolution," incorrect.
Whether you believe that statement anymore or not is irrelevant - the fact remains that the site is a reference site which
contains an obvious bad piece of information.
| So, I'll thank you to take that rumor about ME off of your website. I'd appreciate a little note explaining that you were incorrect about my thoughts, but I'll be willing to bet something so polite won't occur, as you -whoever you are- seem to have quite a bit of unneccessary animosity toward me. |
Don't flatter yourself. I run a site that highlights common pieces of bad information, and when any other major reference site is the root of a bad piece of information, I include the reference back there as well. This is hardly animosity towards you or your site. Well, I have animosity now, but that's only because of your attitude towards the information on my own site.
| Actually, I'm curious: My site is well respected for top notch info (aside from one error [the lav error] and a few dissagreements over my OPINIONS which are clearly marked as such on the site, and I don't bash or slander ANYONE on my website (you do, but we're talking about my site right now). So... Why the snarky comments toward me? I never did anything to you. |
There's more than just the lav error, and not just opinions either("cinnamon blossom planet"). I've detailed them here, as have other people who I link to in the relevant sections. In addition, despite my using humor, I never personally attacked you or your site. I tried to call attention to faulty information that had actually already been pointed out before. I've noticed that the sites I had used as a reference at the time no longer directly reference your site. I can see why if your response to them has been anything like your response to me.
Until now, no, you hadn't done anything to me. In addition, I don't believe I've actually harmed you or your site.
| Speaking of Ian, I just wanted to point out that my name appears in his "Monsters Of the Day" document. The demon "muriido"'s romanization to "Maerd" was started by myself. I don't expect credit, as Ian told you about it. But he did get that idea from MY SITE, originally. Hans Schimacher was present in the email convo when I first figured it out, and could (if he wanted to) attest to it's truth. But, next time you go to "bash" me, think about the dozens of good things I have contibuted to the community. |
I'm not sure what you mean about not getting credit - as you say, you're credited in the document. However, "Maerd" is not listed in it, romanized or otherwise. I had heard it from Ian years ago, which doesn't mean he didn't get it from you (I had actually asked him for a list of enemies out of the Another Story player's guide), but when I included it on my site, he later responded that the term was inaccurate, mainly because "Murido" is an anagram of "dorimu," not the latter word spelled backwards. It has since been changed to reflect that, and the "Maerd" spelling removed.
As for contributing dozens of good things - good for you. I'm still pointing out bad information. That's what I attempt to contribute.
| I'm also the one to discover the "Cenicienta" etymology, and several other "demon of the day" names along with Hans Schumacher, back in the day. |
Really, what is this supposed to be besides a fallacy of appeal to authority? How do you expect me to respond? Is it supposed to make me decide that it doesn't matter about the bad information, you're a great etymologist?
| Basically, if you aren't going to say nice things about me, then don't say anything about me at all. I don't deserve it. I had a talk with Ian about this a while back, and he even agreed (at the time) that it was bad form (but of course, not in those exact words). |
I have noticed an absence of the conversations from his website. Why in the world you would not attempt the same manner of discussion with me, I have no idea. Nor would I have an idea of why coining phrases from Japanese makes you above criticism for other information that is found to be faulty.
| As for the 'Lav' issue, I put that up two years ago and haven't updated my site since. Yes, I have since realized that that is unintended (but since it's a tiny note on my chibiusa page, I forgot about it), so "my bad" on that one. |
So what about the "Kinmokusei" article? In addition, it wasn't the first time that Stallion Lav had come to attention. You may also notice that I had no qualms in my own article with pointing out that another well-respected site, Sailormoon Uncensored, was calling it the Stallion Stable. I have not heard from them about it, but attempts at reaching them about it tended to be rather sour, so I just put it on the site with a joke about a 6 year old hauling a barn around. I use humor to lighten up otherwise dry information, as you seem to understand since you make jokes along the same vein in your own site while debunking rumors.
| I hope the tone of this message came off as annoyed, but civil. If not, then here is where I explain that it was ment to be civil. Sorry if the words don't coincide with your definition of civil. In closing, I sincerely hope you understand that this was not ment to be a flame, but an honest represention of my feelings toward the comments and illusions to myself on your website. With Regards, Natsuki-Lynn |
It's rather hard to believe you were trying to be civil since you posted this in your livejournal with further comments on my own ego, my site, and in the presence of people who you may or may not have known would feel the need to flame me over a matter that was actually between you and me. I am still attempting civility myself, but I'm probably going to sound more annoyed because of the level it's escalated to, rather needlessly I might add.
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I officially blame the cattiness on several egos. I'm counting one... possibly three of them, but I assume there are more out there. I thought this pettiness ended years ago. Am I the only one who doesn't hold grudges against people? I don't even update my site anymore, as of two years ago. Which pehaps is the reason why my kudos are going to other people nowadays. People learning from my website, and then getting the "original" credits for it. Come on, there's plenty of neat obscure Sailormoon mysteries yet to be had, go figure out your own. It's like taking a peek back into the town you used to live in, and seeing that everyone is talking about the same old things. Hehe... oh well. |
You're claiming cattiness and ego before I even had a chance to respond to you? Now who exactly is slandering the other person?
| I still keep in contact with people I met online way back when I was 14~15 years old. That's 8~9 years ago. Know someone for that long, and they attain a special status. At least for me. The way some people (like I do) think fondly of people from their past, even if they were enemies back then. For example... Ian Miller still has a strangely warm place in my e-heart, as does Hans Schumacher, but I'm almost certain the feelings are not reciprocated. Things that happened years ago should be left to settle like ashes in a fireplace. People change, thoughts change, views change... dispite the fact that I've never put anything snarky about either of them on my website (aside from perhaps journal posts, like this) they never afforded me the same courtesy. Oh well... |
Ian's site is a tremendous reference for my site, but he does not influence the content beyond submitting corrections upon finding them. He had nothing to do with my own choice to highlight information from Sweet Usagi. In particular, the information on the Osmanthus Princess translation was started by your site, so where else was I going to link to, a site that was referencing your own information just because you're a great etymologist?
I know this is probably coming off quite rough - I have to say, being put into the public eye before even having a chance to work through the matter is rather insulting to me. I myself do not circulate my livejournal specifically because of this. I also do not post about conflicts with other people in it - all too often it makes it much worse.
Now, here's a sample of the responses to the livejournal. Snark adjusted in accordance to civility of poster:
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From: amelinda Date: March 18th, 2005 - 12:09 pm lynn, that was the most civil document that I think I have ever read by you. If she percieves it otherwise, she is just a big, fat, stupid bitch. |
Wow, you got my weight, my intelligence, AND my temperment, all in one flame! You win...a spot on the flames page. And a moldy cracker.
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From: _sere I don't see any outward "bashing" .. but I do see blunt criticism. If she were calling you names, or going "omg this site SUCKS, the layout sucks, and the info is HORRIBLE, etc etc" I think that would be bashing. I don't really think it was meant to be taken quite so personally, or as a personal attack. I see sites all the time criticize each other. or maybe she's just jealous that her info isn't as good as yours, or something like that. but, if you have your doubts you can try to talk it out with her over email or whatnot. That's what I try to do with people.
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So, despite never saying the site sucks or attacking Natsuki Lynn personally, I'm apparently jealous of her information...eh? Still, this response was actually civil and attempted reason. But fortunately, Natsuki Lynn was able to correct the poor deluded soul by proving that I am Satan incarnate!
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There was more than just that comment on her site.
This was written directly to her, so I didn't quote all of the comments, assuming she knows about them (since she wrote them). |
I know them, but I have no idea why you only highlighted two comments and ignored the others without so much as a correction to my response.
| I did email it to her, but I like to post things in my journal. This situation reminded me of things I wanted to post about, so I included it. |
There's a difference between including a dispute with an unnamed site, and posting, with links and private correspondence, immediately before attempting to mediate.
| Also, of all the good info I have on my site, and all of my past hard work in the community...; do you honestly think lying about my thoughts on something and exaggerating a small error are anything but bashing? She took a tiny error on my site and made it seem as if I'm running around posting it everywhere and spreading rumors. She also explains a name pun that I agree with, and then says that I do not agree... which is essencially lying. She could be mistaken, but if she really wanted to know, she would have emailed me for my official opinion. |
I, at no point, said you were running around and spreading rumors. I linked, in every statement, to the EXACT information on your site. I am not the only person who has done this, but I guess I'm the only one who got noticed for it. Again, I never personally attacked you or your site. Why pointing out fallacies is akin to "bashing" (which would indicate personal attacks) is beyond me, but I have told no lies nor deliberately attempted to falsely present you. A courtesy you have not felt extends towards myself.
|
People just have no manners anymore. |
I couldn't agree more.
Thus spake _sere:
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don't worry about it. people should get the facts before talking trash. which, by the way, is what she is |
Who needs independent observations? Blind devotion is always better! So is using delicious irony at every chance!
| Wow. I'm going to have to blame this one on ego, too. I'm embarassed for her. |
Yep, I must be the one with the ego problem.
In the meantime, after I received the flame with the link to Natsuki Lynn's livejournal, I felt there was no need to keep a public journal hidden and started a thread at the Genvid forums, a place where I get help with my site and also a place where some of the people who she referenced in her original e-mail/livejournal post. I would like to note that my posts to Genvid still included no personal attacks on Natsuki Lynn. Syncophant _sera, naturally, posted a link to the Genvid thread in Natsuki Lynn's livejournal to further highlight my diabolical assault. Since she was not a registered member of Genvid, she could not see the thread, but that didn't stop her from making more gross assumptions. You know, the sort of things that she was upset at me for supposedly doing to her.
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I can't see the thread because I'm not a member. It's really not worth my time and effort to go sign up and read it.
But just the mere fact that she started a whole topic about it and din't bother to email me back about it shows what kind of person she is. She bashes someone she doesn't know with lies, and then get's cowardly about answering it or correcting the issue, but instead goes to her forum buddies to get her ego stroked. Am I right? Probably. |
Replace "forum" with "livejournal", and you've pretty much got...yourself. I started the topic because you felt no need to keep this private. Why should I bother e-mailing you a response when you were most likely going to post it for your own fans to tear into? The fact that you expect me to communicate to you privately when you will not show me the same courtesy is rather hypocritical of you. At least this way people can see what both of us have done and can make their own decisions based on fact. You'll note that in making this page, I have tried to respond to every single piece of dialogue and included all of your statements in context, with references back to where you made them so my readers can find the original text. This is far more than you've done for me, but I attempt to present the absolute truth and I will not deliberately misrepresent you for my own gain.
| Oh, and if she's doing this in retaliation to my posting the letter I wrote to her on my journal, I want to point out that there is quite a huge diference between posting about something in your personal journal and posting more lies about it to backpedal and "cover your ass" on a forum. |
It's not a personal journal if it's availible to the public. Seeing as all I said in my initial post was that I felt your attempts at being civil were transparent by putting this in your journal for sympathy, I was hardly lying about you. And by linking back to your own journal with your comments in context, anyone could have challenged my assumptions because they had the same amount of information that I did. Again, this is still more than you allowed me.
| So I ask you, who's the better person? It's very irritating having done nothing wrong, and then get even more backlash from a social outcast who has nothing better to do with their time than be jealous of other people, people they don't even KNOW. |
I would like to highlight that at this point, you have now made personal attacks on me. I still have not personally attacked you. Why this places me in the wrong is beyond me, but I can't really be jealous of you. I don't even attempt to compare my own site with others because I treat it as a hobby, not an obsession or a method of social promotion.
| I'm sick of the community as a whole, which is the main reason I haven't been part of it for a long long time. I don't see how Sailormoon attacts these kinds of people. But whatever, her goal is probably to shut my site down (if it wasn't. why is she being so weird and underhanded about my civil confrontation?), but that will never happen. My sites too good to end. Their site will, someday end, mine? Never. Haha. She can go ahead and be jealous and petty all she want's, I have a YUKI website that needs more updating. |
Yes, by highlighting small amounts of bad information so that other people will not be fooled, my evil plot to shut down your site is somehow closer to fruition! Seriously, at this point it's hard to say I'm the only one with an ego. I maintain no delusions of grandeur about my website. And if I wanted to shut your site down, I would have done something far more dramatic, like hack it or file false TOS violations to your ISP. I haven't, because I don't care. But ironically, because of the flames from this incident, I finally felt the impetus to update mine. Just think, it would have simply faded completely into obscurity were it not for this entire ordeal! So I owe you, Natsuki Lynn and your followers, a great thanks for giving me the motivation to continue. Couldn't have done it without you.
| Lastly, and more generally; I like people to be blunt, candid, and honest with me, as I am to them. This girl is none of those, she's cowardly, wishy-washy, and a liar. Not very good in my book. |
Well, I think I've been the first three things in this response, but I highly doubt anything I say will make you see me as anything but those last three things. So I'll simply keep talking the way I usually do.
And now, for your amusement - the original flame that brought Natsuki Lynn's journal to my attention.
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Message:
kinda pissed at the fact you're a bitch. --> http://www.livejournal.com/users/natsukigirl/182438.html?style=mine leave natsukigirl alone, she has a better site AND layout then you! |
Well hot damn, the layout of a professional web designer is better than that of a hobbyist! I may as well close up in shame.
Well, eventually, Natsuki Lynn wrote a pair of much stronger responses to me. I would like to point out that once again, at the time of this writing, this is the only response I have made to the charges against me. Again, I have still made no personal attacks. I feel it is not out of line for me to post my criticisms in public considering that Natsuki Lynn is still posting about me. I do not consider livejournal flames private communications unless the journal is somehow encrypted from the public eye.
The first response, again in the livejournal, quotes many portions of a previous livejournal flame. Wherever you see the sign [...] is where I have deleted a repeated portion. I'm not going to address the same flame again.
| I know that in real life my bluntness and occational rudeness attracts bad behaviour from other people sometimes. But online, especially my website (not my journal) aren't controversial, AT ALL. They supply information. The Sailormoon site, for example, has info, a few opinions, and no one else exacept the author and myself are mentioned. So why all the big fucking fuss over it? |
I don't know, I only posted about some bits of information on your site. I never actually attacked you for it, nor did I parade around the internet telling people to despise you and your site and tear you down. It would seem the only person who's escalated this situation would be you.
| I'm sitting here minding my own business, and someone I don't know, out of nowhere, has a huge beef with me. This has happened a few times in the past, and it's always the same thing: They get pissed about WHO KNOWS what, causes a public fuss, I contact them directly about it, they ignore the civility and get nutty and go on a rampage, and then I have to run around and do damage control. I'm tired of this crap. What the fuck causes this? I'm at my end, I just cannot figure it out. The first time it happened, it was someone who was jealous that I used a certain sceenname before they could (in that situation I even stepped down from it and took on 'natsuki' instead, but they still were not satisfied). Then it was just some random troll who got upset when I didn't want to chat with them. Now it's some lame girl with a false vendetta against me. I honestly cannot see what causes this. It's quite irritating. (note: and it's always females) |
If there's a vendetta anywhere, it seems you've made one against me over something quite minor. You have yet to prove being civil, the comments you made about me while pretending to act civil in private prove this. I have yet to "go on a rampage", but I see that you enjoy hyperbole more than I do.
| I'm sick of the community as a whole, which is the main reason I haven't been part of it for a long long time. Which brings up another good point, I haven't been to another website or forum aside from my own in over two years!! I haven't been active in the community for over THREE years... yet people are still magically finding things to fuck me around with. JUST. CUT. THE. SHIT. I don't care. Do your thing, submit your little website to rating groups, submit your site to search engines and cliques. Please, be my guest, I don't do that crap anymore. I'm not competing with you. You win, go take your sailormoon plushie and go the fuck away from me. |
...this was a competition? I have never pursued you. I have never attempted to tear you down. I enjoy that you are still pinning this on me, but I have yet to have made this many public complaints about you. And for someone who claims to not even care about what people say, you've taken these very small comments and turned them into my personal vendetta against all that is Natsuki Lynn.
Ironic about the plushie comment, this flame came before the plush-themed layout.
| It's like walking up to some stranger on the street, then turn around and start screaming at everyone around that you dislike this person you just saw and because they used to like something that you like many years ago and telling them they didn't agree with such and such. In that situation, you'd think "whoa, crazy homeless woman... better leave, quick." But somehow, online, this is acceptable behaviour?? |
The double-standard grows more and more apparent with every sentence.
| I don't see how Sailormoon attacts these kinds of people. She can go ahead and be jealous, catty, and petty all she want's, I have a YUKI website that needs more updating. |
I have yet to have been catty and jealous or petty. I have yet to fight with you. Well, I suppose I am now, but I feel that mounting a defense against a growing series of invective-loaded tirades is not exactly cattiness. And I still have yet to personally attack you in any forum, but you continue to do so against me without so much as a simple response from myself.
Within an hour of the previous flame, Natsuki Lynn finally read the conversation from the thread as posted in _sere's livejournal. Naturally, she had to follow that up with another flame of her own. For the record, I still have not responded to Natsuki Lynn until this writing.
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Boy, can I call them or what?
Lemme just explain for those of you who can't make heads or tails of their little wank. I sent her the email. She claims she was about to respond to me, but one of my imaginary lackeys flamed her. BAsically, because someone who read my journal flamed her about it after reading about it, she decides it must be me, or my fault. |
At no point did I claim you sent a lackey. While it is indirectly a result of you posting in public about this, I never claimed you sent someone after me. I am not that kind of paranoid individual, and I just don't see you as the kind of sad, pathetic person who sends a web posse after people.
| Sorry, you can go ahead and keep telling yourself I wasn't being civil. Whatever makes you orgasm at the end of the day, you go ahead and do that. Clever excuse, but, as you can see, it now makes you look even more retarded than you already were. |
Well, I guess I found out what you're like when you're not civil.
| I also love how she adds little ganks from my journal to make herself sound equally as apathetic as I am (for example, notice how she says she hasn't worked on her site in oh, so long). Bitch, please. If you are so "yawn" about it, why do you bash me on your website, and why are you getting your panties all in a twist because *GASP* I have fans? HULLO. Logic wants to come in for a landing. |
This is an example of the cattiness you yourself complained about. I didn't "bash" you on my website. I'm probably not coming out roses on you right now, but it's hardly unwarranted at this point to not respond to you. At this point, it's also impossible to claim your own ego is not part of this because I never included claims over fans in my site, or in my current dispute. You've added that.
At this point, there's some unrelated dialogue that I'm clipping out, mostly about Ian and...sexual fetishes? But here's a chainflame from _sere.
| btw, I I think I talked to "rebochan" once .. she's really a snob. With a crappy website to boot. She's just jealous of your site, don't worry. |
I'm glad you've freed yourself of all grasp of logic. I can't recall talking to someone like you directly, but as the Genvid forums are big and I tend to go in and out rather frequently, I'm not ruling it out. The only person I ever offended there was the person in charge of a terrible PGSM fandub, so unless you were involved in that, I'm not sure what you did.
I have no idea if this is going escalate further. I doubt showing Natsuki Lynn more civility than she has shown me will change anything, but I felt the need to defend myself properly. I have never tried to attack her, nor do I care to, but if my site is being flamed in public, that's why I have a flames page - to either make fun of the really nonsensical ones, or respond in detail to the more coherent pieces.